One of the most ridiculous articles I have ever read. It sounds like you have no idea what a good traditional Latin mass community looks like. I suggest you find a good fraternity of Saint Peter and attend for a year. You will find men rooted in what the Catholic Church taught for 1500 years. Your diatribe will be disassembled by your own eyes. 35 years ago, I found that men were scarce in the new mass, which was orchestrated by old women doing the job of the priest. When I was young before the change men had many groups that were attended by the majority of men in the parish. Your diatribe could have been written by the likes of Cardinal Roche.
Wait a minute. FSSP priests have had to tell their congregations off, from the pulpit, for bad behaviour of the laity. By this, I mean sneering at and looking down on others who are not deemed up to their standard (and I mean from within their own congregation/church), and treating tradition as an ideology, rather than one seated in contemplation. You are wrong.
I think you missed the earlier posts from this guy where he complains that people of European descent prefer and promote their European liturgy to cynically revive their European heritage, and this is all bad because someone was racist to him once.
Based St. Moses the Black would have BURNED these weak men with FIRE and BLOOD. (My aesthetics are cool; yours are lame)
I feel like Peter in the garden sometimes, where he cut off the ear of the servant coming to arrest Jesus. I want one big heroic action to show my zeal and dedication, and i feel thats the point where Crusader Larping comes from.
I think its fine to be inspired by some of the actions the Crusaders took. But what did Jesus do in the garden? He healed the servants ear and rebuked Peter.
The actual true form of masculinity of Peter was being the rock of the Church.
I think thats what you are talking about here and I agree. We are tempted to use the sword in order to feel something, to feel purpose. BUt using the church as a salve not a sword has the most impact
I always think about cutting off the ear of servant. Trying to defend Jesus, Peter in fact took away from this man 50% chances for hearing the God's Word (by cutting off the ear). It's not the way we are to defend our faith.
Thanks for writing these. The men I minister to are falling down this trad rabbit hole, despite no available Latin Masses within an hour radius of us. I hope they find writings like this amid their obsession and become obsessed with Christ instead.
Thank you for this, Alex. The fact that these men are falling into this without even a physical trad community nearby tells me the digital space is wreaking havoc. It confirms that I’m doing the right work—and that I need to push harder.
Your support means a lot. Stick around. I’m dialing this up, and I’m building something bigger to fight it.
I’m going to PM you. I’d like to know more about your ministry, your experience with the men, and what you’re seeing. That kind of intel is vital.
When eo priests were sent to Siberia, they used bread and water for the eucharist. You get the liturgy from your relationship with Christ. If tlm was a saint factory then it'd take over (the beatitudes).
Once again, prophetic words. A voice crying out in the desert make way for the Lord. I have a question for you. First let me give you some context: I have mentioned before that my husband and I came into full communion with the Catholic Church 3 years ago and were drawn into this intense debate over TLM vs. NO and have had to wade through it all. We came to the same conclusions you write about. Luckily, my husband has truly been through the fire over the years of following Christ, is wise and discerning and understands/lives the cruciform life. He saw through all of this early on. Right as we were coming into the Church the archdiocese moved our priest and installed a new priest who calls himself a “traditional priest,” seems absolutely unconcerned about discipleship and evangelization, and has blatantly said that if the parish dwindles to nothing it’s fine because he will just offer the mass at his house! It’s been constant controversy and upheaval in our parish the past three years. This priest is the polar opposite of our last priest. We’ve been plopped down in the middle of a turmoil that we had no idea existed in the Catholic Church beforehand, and that we feel like misses the point in so many ways of true discipleship. Recently our parish has developed a “safety team” of men who stand at alert to guard the parish if someone wanted to come in and shoot people, etc. At the recent walk through “practice” run with the team our priest said that if anyone comes in with violent intentions his job will be to grab the Eucharist and run to the back room. He repeated this again a few weeks later while my husband and son were at the parish getting ready to serve at the altar. So my husband heard all this. I am *floored* that my priest, who stands In Persona Christi, would rather “protect the Eucharist” than protect my 12 year old son if an active shooter was in the parish. I have never met a pastor like this in my 25 years of being a Christ follower. It seems like the epitome of what you are saying in this post…weak, misguided manhood, a lack of understanding, not to mention I can’t even fathom Jesus wanting a priest to do this rather than laying down his life protecting his flock. I am pissed off, grieved, shocked, and considering writing to my archdiocese. In my mind it is further confirmation that this disease running rampant in the Church is deception. Not to mention how disturbing it is that NO ONE at the run through questioned this. Question: is this REALLY what Catholics expect their priest to do? Is this what a priest should do? I have a hard time believing it.
You always show up with discernment, humility, and spiritual clarity. And every time you share about your husband, I’m reminded why I write.
Men like him shouldn’t be the exception that proves the rule. He’s the blueprint. That’s what keeps me going.
Now, about the priest.
Yes, he’s correct I’m going to follow up with my deacon on something specific like the scenario your mentioned. Once the Eucharistic Prayer begins, the priest must continue. That’s not optional. Once the consecration begins, the sacrifice cannot stop. That’s the law of the Church. That’s why you’ll sometimes see videos where someone faints or there’s a disruption, but the priest keeps going. He has to.
But what I’m reading is your concern isn’t about technical correctness but about how he said it, why he said it, and the posture it reveals. I share your concern.
Saying “I’ll just offer the Mass at my house if the parish dies” is a retreat. That’s not reverence. That’s detachment masquerading as fidelity. When a priest starts calling himself a “traditional priest” while sounding completely disinterested in discipleship or formation that’s a massive red flag. And sadly, it’s becoming common.
This isn’t tradition but nostalgia soaked in pride.
And it reflects exactly what I wrote men hiding behind the liturgy while abandoning their flocks. This isn’t a priest bashing session either. We respect and obey our clergy, and two things can be true, they can make poor choices that impact the laity.
Protecting the Eucharist is right.
Forsaking your parishioners is not.
When a priest’s instincts prioritize ritual while showing no concern for souls—especially children—that’s cowardice, draped in vestments.
You’re not wrong to be disturbed.
You’re not wrong to be angry.
And praise God for the husband you have. He’s doing what too many men won’t: shielding, discerning, standing firm in the fire. Thank him for me. I’ll be praying for him today.
Our parish continually has training for the ushers and volunteer men of the parish on how to handle emergencies, such as a shooter or knife-wielding maniac. The protocol is very clear. The priest will protect any/all consecrated hosts and the altar boys. The older altar boys will protect the younger altar boys and the priest. The ushers and the men in the pews deal with the emergency.
All Catholics, not just priests, are expected to protect consecrated hosts. They are the Body of Christ, not crackers. I suggest Genesis 22:1-19 and 2 Maccabees 7: 1-42. God and faith before man, even our children. Pray none of us ever face a trial like Abraham or the mother in Maccabees.
This article makes good point after good point. Another thing to consider, and indeed could have a whole article on it, is that much of the non Christian performative masculinity originally grew in non-denominational Christian settings. We picked it up from them - and it hasn't saved them, either.
That would be amazing. There's lots of content on this out there from a progressive/secular perspective, but I find it lacking because they often include their own error as well. I have heard a few substantive critiques from Catholics but not enough.
Many of the big names out there today (Doug Wilson, The Mars Hill guy who rebranded, and now names like Joel Webbon) all in some part spew these malicious errors, knowingly or unknowingly. And unsurprisingly they also critique Catholicism. The Mars Hill guy whose name eludes me even recently criticized Catholic priests because they've "never run a household" or something so they can't be real men and leaders.
I’ve seen it too. That video critiquing the priests really stuck with me. It was eye-opening. But you’re dead-on: these men don’t actually talk about governance in the household. Their ideas are rooted in “I Tarzan, you Jane” and not cruciform headship. It’s power without formation.
Mark Driscoll. We come from that culture. I know exactly what you are talking about and the crazy part to me is that his attitudes/stance seems to directly contradict Catholic teaching yet the attitudes have definitely trickled into current Catholic culture.
And honestly, I’d love to know more about yours and your husband’s experience with this. It’s important for me to collect accounts as I do this.
The entire demographic you’re describing? It’s huge and voiceless. No one’s speaking directly to it.
This is exactly what I’m going to be addressing head-on next week. That poison is spreading fast. And people still think I’m doing this for clicks or just trying to stir the pot?
Nope.
I’m doing this because I want a Church that forms and trains men to still exist when my son is grown. I want him to inherit something real, cruciform, and holy.
I can honestly say, the FSSP community I belong to is nothing like this. I have no doubt the issues you raise exist but I suspect they exist mainly in the US, mainly where there are a lot of single (white) men, many of which are new converts. The community I belong to is not in the US, has a large family presence (lots of kids!), and is probably less than 50% white (a racial mix has a hugely positive effect IMO). Our priest encourages staying away from online Catholic commentators and we have a rigorous Lenten fasting program (fasting every day, one meal a day). The men are solid, devout and humble. Your article highlighted how fortunate I am to be a part of it!
Thank you for sharing this. I wish more men would speak up about their experiences, because I know it’s not all doom and gloom.
It takes real spiritual maturity to say, “Yes, there’s a problem,” while still being grateful for a parish community that actively works to keep that kind of rot out. That’s good witness. I pray more men find parishes like yours.
In the meantime, the call remains the same: stay in formation and keep training. Obedience is not subjective.
Same here in my small plain old TLM parish in Perth Australia. I joined from the NO a couple of years ago after being weirded out by the closing of churches for covid, and lifelong lack of spiritual meat. I found here just normal people who love God and want reverence. Priests who know the value of providing confession. Lots of young families, large families. Very humble and devout. It resurrected me and restored my faith Catholicism. I always knew the Bride of Christ had to be beautiful but had never seen it. Now I have seen it, a poor shadow though it is, and I've glimpsed what the future can be like when the reign of peace comes.
As a former Evangelical, I have observed the issues addressing in this piece. Another way to describe it is that Protestantism is sneaking into the trad communities. When they decide to pick and choose which Church authorities they submit to, they are engaging in Protestantism. This only leads to bad fruit all around.
Yes. This is exactly it. When submission to the Church becomes conditional on “only if the aesthetics match,” “only if the Pope agrees with my instincts” then we’re not being traditional, we’re being rebellious and disobedient.
Nothing justifies disobedience. Thank you for seeing the deeper thread here and engaging with it. I’m grateful for your input here, especially from your generation. You guys are the future.
Sometimes I've this impression that trads are kind of postmodernists or/and individualists. Their prefer their own way of prayer, they prefer form over the content and they reject Church as a whole. They just pick what they like and they call it following tradition. It's ridiculous.
To me, the comments reflect the wounded, the malformed, the unfathered.
Like all of us, they cling to whatever gave them shape: ideals, symbols, traditions. When pain becomes identity, truth feels like violence. When theology becomes aesthetic, anything that touches it feels like betrayal.
I get why they resist. I do. I’m not here to affirm what’s killing them.
I’m here to call them up (and back) into the sacramental life, where apostolic living isn’t optional. It’s a weapon. That’s the desert. That’s Christ. Glad you’re here.
Well said. I feel like anyone who has two things will not be bashing your message. 1) a firm and consuming desire to be holy, to be one with God, to have nothing else but Him. Viewing the things of the world as nothing but distractions.
2) a realisation, reached through repeated failure, that we can do nothing without Him and that all our efforts will come to nothing unless we put holiness as our #1 priority, always, which takes discipline, it takes focus, it takes
3) realisation that He has given us the blueprint for achieving all of this. In such detail and magnificence. Literally given us Himself - The Way - to be reconciled with the Father. And that Way, for men, is what you're outlining and helping to put into words. The desert.
I firmly believe we can all be saints. And in fact Jesus is calling us all to be saints. No half measures. Some of the particulars of day to day actions, and the external and visible results may be different for people in different circumstances but the internal dedication, attitude and humility, heads bowed but the eyes of our hearts set on heaven with longing, will be the same for everyone. And no one who has this and the 3 things could fail to see the truth in what you're saying.
This was perfectly articulated. This is exactly what I’m alluding to. We have the blueprint, we’ve been given an apostolic mission as husband and fathers. If you bleed into it, then the items I outlined here aren’t ones you take issue with.
Thank you for this input and your witness. We need more of it badly.
"No announcements, accountability posts, or group chats."
So you're not a fan of Exodus 90? Sincere question. They seem to echo a lot of what you describe here, but group accountability (and to a certain extent, group chats) are a very large part of their model.
I'm a wife and mother, so I know that my viewpoint isn't masculine. Take this with whatever grain of salt you believe that merits. It seems that men have needed, or at least benefitted from, fraternal community to grow spiritually throughout Church history. Most aren't called to be hermits or anchorites; they're called to live in some sort of community. I'm guessing that kind of community isn't what you're calling out here, but it does seem that the road you're describing is a very solitary one. I'm not sure that's sustainable long term.
Exodus 90 is, in many ways, 75 Hard with Catholic paint. It might work as a jumpstart for a single man, but for a man with a wife and children, it’s too rigid, too performative, and not anchored in habits that build sustainable apostolic habits.
The ascetic piece is one element. But being an apostle day in, and day out is the whole life.
Your viewpoint absolutely matters. You’re a wife and mother, and your experience is essential. You’re directly affected not only by your husband’s formation, but by the way men like me speak to husbands about who they are becoming. That ripple effect matters and in a sense I’m accountable to you as well.
I don’t deny the value of brotherhood, but the problem is that “fraternity” has become a spiritual outsourcing strategy with no checks and balances. A man’s first fraternity is his household: his wife, his children. If a man is battling pornography, wrath, vanity, or spiritual apathy, the brotherhood isn’t with him in those quiet moments of decision. He’s alone. And if he hasn’t been trained to turn to Christ in the desert, to the sacraments, to Our Lady, then no group chat will save him.
This is what many of these programs miss for husbands and fathers and is largely why I’m here. They point to communal discipline but rarely to sacramental dependency. They emphasize external structure and often neglect the priesthood and governance of the home.
So yes, it is a solitary road, no doubt. But not an empty one. Christ is in the desert. The Blessed Mother is there. The Fathers are there. And if a man is doing this properly, his wife and children aren’t behind him waiting for updates, they’re beside him, under his covering, transformed by the hidden cruciformity of his life.
Thank you for engaging meaningfully. You gave me an idea.
The other temptation I see with Exodus type movements(and have struggled a bit with, myself).... Is Pelagian type tendencies. I believe Pope Francis mentioned it in Evangelii Gaudium, and it caused seizures like a brain surgeon poking the right spot.
It leans heavily into the heresy of Pelagianism. Grinding, optimizing, and striving your way into holiness, as if Christ were a coach instead of a Savior.
I have to check myself on that constantly in my own writing. It’s a subtle slope, and ascetic approaches can slip into it without meaning to.
It’s telling that when Pope Francis called this out in Evangelii Gaudium, people lost their minds because it struck a nerve.
A lot of Trad culture runs on that exact logic: borrowed from the secular manosphere, fueled by denominational preachers. Performative masculinity masquerading as formation: hustle your way to heaven.
But Christ said, “Apart from Me, you can do nothing.”
That’s why the desert is my frame. I’m not promoting hustle, i’m calling men to become apostles, to carry their cross, and to disappear into the hidden cruciform work of priesthood in the home. That’s why the Pelagians hate it and that’s why the Church needs it.
Thank you for your support Maria! It wasn’t easy to write. I know a lot of Catholics can see and feel this. Comments like yours let me know I’m not making things up.
That joke, that witty remark held on the tip of your tongue; the cheerful smile for those who annoy you; that silence when you're unjustly accused; your friendly conversation with people whom you find boring and tactless; the daily effort to overlook one irritating detail or another in the persons who live with you… this, with perseverance, is indeed solid interior mortification.
I really appreciated what you called out here. I see this toxicity in the TLM movement at times and have witnessed forms of it for a while. I want to say I know really really good people who attend TLM but overall I see issues. The group doesn’t strike me as missionary or outward reaching or friendly in any way. It also confuses culture with liturgy. The liturgy should not be your culture but something that reflects it and transcends it and pulls it higher. The problem is we actually need to work on learning to be human again first. There is a huge void there. God loves all peoples and cultures and they reflect different aspects of the humans he made us to be . To your thirty days advice I would add something. Finding a friend to spend time with and accompany you. In community we learn to bear our suffering. This was thought provoking. Thank you. I hear you brother!
Thank you for engaging with the point. This is the only way through here. There are tons of devout Catholics at TLM and I feel many of them are in an impossible position with how extreme the community has gotten.
You got it right, the liturgy has to pull you higher. That’s my point here. The men are falling miserably. We’re so stuck on aesthetics instead of obedience and apostolic living. So what’s the point?
I love your addition of having a friend accompany. That’s a worthy inclusion. Thank you for sharing your insight, it’s good witness and keeps the dialogue open.
The heart of the problem is the lack of good shepherds for a long time that resulted in lack of trust. People cling to the good they have and after being kicked around so much they cling to it tighter and feel proud for not letting go, mistaking what they hold for what they are without letting it transform them. The solution, therefore, is not to deprive them of the good thing, but to have a true shepherd lead them to make proper use of the good thing. Depriving them of the good thing is further going to erode that trust in shepherds and further exacerbate the problem. Not to mention, I find it inherently unjust to attack any Liturgy that has such a history. If such problems existed in other rites, should we be eager to punish them by limiting their Liturgy? Would it not be profoundly unjust to take away, say any of the Byzantine rites if their members had personal defects in their communities? I could be wrong, but that is my worthless opinion.
One of the most ridiculous articles I have ever read. It sounds like you have no idea what a good traditional Latin mass community looks like. I suggest you find a good fraternity of Saint Peter and attend for a year. You will find men rooted in what the Catholic Church taught for 1500 years. Your diatribe will be disassembled by your own eyes. 35 years ago, I found that men were scarce in the new mass, which was orchestrated by old women doing the job of the priest. When I was young before the change men had many groups that were attended by the majority of men in the parish. Your diatribe could have been written by the likes of Cardinal Roche.
Wait a minute. FSSP priests have had to tell their congregations off, from the pulpit, for bad behaviour of the laity. By this, I mean sneering at and looking down on others who are not deemed up to their standard (and I mean from within their own congregation/church), and treating tradition as an ideology, rather than one seated in contemplation. You are wrong.
You captured my thoughts almost exactly. You are correct!
I think you missed the earlier posts from this guy where he complains that people of European descent prefer and promote their European liturgy to cynically revive their European heritage, and this is all bad because someone was racist to him once.
Based St. Moses the Black would have BURNED these weak men with FIRE and BLOOD. (My aesthetics are cool; yours are lame)
I feel like Peter in the garden sometimes, where he cut off the ear of the servant coming to arrest Jesus. I want one big heroic action to show my zeal and dedication, and i feel thats the point where Crusader Larping comes from.
I think its fine to be inspired by some of the actions the Crusaders took. But what did Jesus do in the garden? He healed the servants ear and rebuked Peter.
The actual true form of masculinity of Peter was being the rock of the Church.
I think thats what you are talking about here and I agree. We are tempted to use the sword in order to feel something, to feel purpose. BUt using the church as a salve not a sword has the most impact
I always think about cutting off the ear of servant. Trying to defend Jesus, Peter in fact took away from this man 50% chances for hearing the God's Word (by cutting off the ear). It's not the way we are to defend our faith.
Thanks for writing these. The men I minister to are falling down this trad rabbit hole, despite no available Latin Masses within an hour radius of us. I hope they find writings like this amid their obsession and become obsessed with Christ instead.
Thank you for this, Alex. The fact that these men are falling into this without even a physical trad community nearby tells me the digital space is wreaking havoc. It confirms that I’m doing the right work—and that I need to push harder.
Your support means a lot. Stick around. I’m dialing this up, and I’m building something bigger to fight it.
I’m going to PM you. I’d like to know more about your ministry, your experience with the men, and what you’re seeing. That kind of intel is vital.
Praying for you brother.
When eo priests were sent to Siberia, they used bread and water for the eucharist. You get the liturgy from your relationship with Christ. If tlm was a saint factory then it'd take over (the beatitudes).
This is awesome.
I'm getting the feeling the Pope is going to end up openly addressing this.
I pray he does. I only see this getting worse.
Once again, prophetic words. A voice crying out in the desert make way for the Lord. I have a question for you. First let me give you some context: I have mentioned before that my husband and I came into full communion with the Catholic Church 3 years ago and were drawn into this intense debate over TLM vs. NO and have had to wade through it all. We came to the same conclusions you write about. Luckily, my husband has truly been through the fire over the years of following Christ, is wise and discerning and understands/lives the cruciform life. He saw through all of this early on. Right as we were coming into the Church the archdiocese moved our priest and installed a new priest who calls himself a “traditional priest,” seems absolutely unconcerned about discipleship and evangelization, and has blatantly said that if the parish dwindles to nothing it’s fine because he will just offer the mass at his house! It’s been constant controversy and upheaval in our parish the past three years. This priest is the polar opposite of our last priest. We’ve been plopped down in the middle of a turmoil that we had no idea existed in the Catholic Church beforehand, and that we feel like misses the point in so many ways of true discipleship. Recently our parish has developed a “safety team” of men who stand at alert to guard the parish if someone wanted to come in and shoot people, etc. At the recent walk through “practice” run with the team our priest said that if anyone comes in with violent intentions his job will be to grab the Eucharist and run to the back room. He repeated this again a few weeks later while my husband and son were at the parish getting ready to serve at the altar. So my husband heard all this. I am *floored* that my priest, who stands In Persona Christi, would rather “protect the Eucharist” than protect my 12 year old son if an active shooter was in the parish. I have never met a pastor like this in my 25 years of being a Christ follower. It seems like the epitome of what you are saying in this post…weak, misguided manhood, a lack of understanding, not to mention I can’t even fathom Jesus wanting a priest to do this rather than laying down his life protecting his flock. I am pissed off, grieved, shocked, and considering writing to my archdiocese. In my mind it is further confirmation that this disease running rampant in the Church is deception. Not to mention how disturbing it is that NO ONE at the run through questioned this. Question: is this REALLY what Catholics expect their priest to do? Is this what a priest should do? I have a hard time believing it.
Beth, I’m truly grateful for you.
You always show up with discernment, humility, and spiritual clarity. And every time you share about your husband, I’m reminded why I write.
Men like him shouldn’t be the exception that proves the rule. He’s the blueprint. That’s what keeps me going.
Now, about the priest.
Yes, he’s correct I’m going to follow up with my deacon on something specific like the scenario your mentioned. Once the Eucharistic Prayer begins, the priest must continue. That’s not optional. Once the consecration begins, the sacrifice cannot stop. That’s the law of the Church. That’s why you’ll sometimes see videos where someone faints or there’s a disruption, but the priest keeps going. He has to.
But what I’m reading is your concern isn’t about technical correctness but about how he said it, why he said it, and the posture it reveals. I share your concern.
Saying “I’ll just offer the Mass at my house if the parish dies” is a retreat. That’s not reverence. That’s detachment masquerading as fidelity. When a priest starts calling himself a “traditional priest” while sounding completely disinterested in discipleship or formation that’s a massive red flag. And sadly, it’s becoming common.
This isn’t tradition but nostalgia soaked in pride.
And it reflects exactly what I wrote men hiding behind the liturgy while abandoning their flocks. This isn’t a priest bashing session either. We respect and obey our clergy, and two things can be true, they can make poor choices that impact the laity.
Protecting the Eucharist is right.
Forsaking your parishioners is not.
When a priest’s instincts prioritize ritual while showing no concern for souls—especially children—that’s cowardice, draped in vestments.
You’re not wrong to be disturbed.
You’re not wrong to be angry.
And praise God for the husband you have. He’s doing what too many men won’t: shielding, discerning, standing firm in the fire. Thank him for me. I’ll be praying for him today.
Keep going. You’re both needed.
Our parish continually has training for the ushers and volunteer men of the parish on how to handle emergencies, such as a shooter or knife-wielding maniac. The protocol is very clear. The priest will protect any/all consecrated hosts and the altar boys. The older altar boys will protect the younger altar boys and the priest. The ushers and the men in the pews deal with the emergency.
All Catholics, not just priests, are expected to protect consecrated hosts. They are the Body of Christ, not crackers. I suggest Genesis 22:1-19 and 2 Maccabees 7: 1-42. God and faith before man, even our children. Pray none of us ever face a trial like Abraham or the mother in Maccabees.
Nailed it.
This article makes good point after good point. Another thing to consider, and indeed could have a whole article on it, is that much of the non Christian performative masculinity originally grew in non-denominational Christian settings. We picked it up from them - and it hasn't saved them, either.
Jack this is an excellent point and one that’s easy to overlook. Going to address this as well.
That would be amazing. There's lots of content on this out there from a progressive/secular perspective, but I find it lacking because they often include their own error as well. I have heard a few substantive critiques from Catholics but not enough.
Many of the big names out there today (Doug Wilson, The Mars Hill guy who rebranded, and now names like Joel Webbon) all in some part spew these malicious errors, knowingly or unknowingly. And unsurprisingly they also critique Catholicism. The Mars Hill guy whose name eludes me even recently criticized Catholic priests because they've "never run a household" or something so they can't be real men and leaders.
You’re right to point this out.
I’ve seen it too. That video critiquing the priests really stuck with me. It was eye-opening. But you’re dead-on: these men don’t actually talk about governance in the household. Their ideas are rooted in “I Tarzan, you Jane” and not cruciform headship. It’s power without formation.
I’m going to tackle this aggressively.
Mark Driscoll. We come from that culture. I know exactly what you are talking about and the crazy part to me is that his attitudes/stance seems to directly contradict Catholic teaching yet the attitudes have definitely trickled into current Catholic culture.
Beth, that’s wild.
And honestly, I’d love to know more about yours and your husband’s experience with this. It’s important for me to collect accounts as I do this.
The entire demographic you’re describing? It’s huge and voiceless. No one’s speaking directly to it.
This is exactly what I’m going to be addressing head-on next week. That poison is spreading fast. And people still think I’m doing this for clicks or just trying to stir the pot?
Nope.
I’m doing this because I want a Church that forms and trains men to still exist when my son is grown. I want him to inherit something real, cruciform, and holy.
I will never stop.
I can honestly say, the FSSP community I belong to is nothing like this. I have no doubt the issues you raise exist but I suspect they exist mainly in the US, mainly where there are a lot of single (white) men, many of which are new converts. The community I belong to is not in the US, has a large family presence (lots of kids!), and is probably less than 50% white (a racial mix has a hugely positive effect IMO). Our priest encourages staying away from online Catholic commentators and we have a rigorous Lenten fasting program (fasting every day, one meal a day). The men are solid, devout and humble. Your article highlighted how fortunate I am to be a part of it!
Thank you for sharing this. I wish more men would speak up about their experiences, because I know it’s not all doom and gloom.
It takes real spiritual maturity to say, “Yes, there’s a problem,” while still being grateful for a parish community that actively works to keep that kind of rot out. That’s good witness. I pray more men find parishes like yours.
In the meantime, the call remains the same: stay in formation and keep training. Obedience is not subjective.
Same here in my small plain old TLM parish in Perth Australia. I joined from the NO a couple of years ago after being weirded out by the closing of churches for covid, and lifelong lack of spiritual meat. I found here just normal people who love God and want reverence. Priests who know the value of providing confession. Lots of young families, large families. Very humble and devout. It resurrected me and restored my faith Catholicism. I always knew the Bride of Christ had to be beautiful but had never seen it. Now I have seen it, a poor shadow though it is, and I've glimpsed what the future can be like when the reign of peace comes.
As a former Evangelical, I have observed the issues addressing in this piece. Another way to describe it is that Protestantism is sneaking into the trad communities. When they decide to pick and choose which Church authorities they submit to, they are engaging in Protestantism. This only leads to bad fruit all around.
Yes. This is exactly it. When submission to the Church becomes conditional on “only if the aesthetics match,” “only if the Pope agrees with my instincts” then we’re not being traditional, we’re being rebellious and disobedient.
Nothing justifies disobedience. Thank you for seeing the deeper thread here and engaging with it. I’m grateful for your input here, especially from your generation. You guys are the future.
Sometimes I've this impression that trads are kind of postmodernists or/and individualists. Their prefer their own way of prayer, they prefer form over the content and they reject Church as a whole. They just pick what they like and they call it following tradition. It's ridiculous.
Powerful and true. Quite astonishing the number of clueless comments
Thanks for reading, James.
To me, the comments reflect the wounded, the malformed, the unfathered.
Like all of us, they cling to whatever gave them shape: ideals, symbols, traditions. When pain becomes identity, truth feels like violence. When theology becomes aesthetic, anything that touches it feels like betrayal.
I get why they resist. I do. I’m not here to affirm what’s killing them.
I’m here to call them up (and back) into the sacramental life, where apostolic living isn’t optional. It’s a weapon. That’s the desert. That’s Christ. Glad you’re here.
Well said. I feel like anyone who has two things will not be bashing your message. 1) a firm and consuming desire to be holy, to be one with God, to have nothing else but Him. Viewing the things of the world as nothing but distractions.
2) a realisation, reached through repeated failure, that we can do nothing without Him and that all our efforts will come to nothing unless we put holiness as our #1 priority, always, which takes discipline, it takes focus, it takes
3) realisation that He has given us the blueprint for achieving all of this. In such detail and magnificence. Literally given us Himself - The Way - to be reconciled with the Father. And that Way, for men, is what you're outlining and helping to put into words. The desert.
I firmly believe we can all be saints. And in fact Jesus is calling us all to be saints. No half measures. Some of the particulars of day to day actions, and the external and visible results may be different for people in different circumstances but the internal dedication, attitude and humility, heads bowed but the eyes of our hearts set on heaven with longing, will be the same for everyone. And no one who has this and the 3 things could fail to see the truth in what you're saying.
Blessed be the name of the Lord
This was perfectly articulated. This is exactly what I’m alluding to. We have the blueprint, we’ve been given an apostolic mission as husband and fathers. If you bleed into it, then the items I outlined here aren’t ones you take issue with.
Thank you for this input and your witness. We need more of it badly.
"No announcements, accountability posts, or group chats."
So you're not a fan of Exodus 90? Sincere question. They seem to echo a lot of what you describe here, but group accountability (and to a certain extent, group chats) are a very large part of their model.
I'm a wife and mother, so I know that my viewpoint isn't masculine. Take this with whatever grain of salt you believe that merits. It seems that men have needed, or at least benefitted from, fraternal community to grow spiritually throughout Church history. Most aren't called to be hermits or anchorites; they're called to live in some sort of community. I'm guessing that kind of community isn't what you're calling out here, but it does seem that the road you're describing is a very solitary one. I'm not sure that's sustainable long term.
I’m not. Not for a husband and father.
Exodus 90 is, in many ways, 75 Hard with Catholic paint. It might work as a jumpstart for a single man, but for a man with a wife and children, it’s too rigid, too performative, and not anchored in habits that build sustainable apostolic habits.
The ascetic piece is one element. But being an apostle day in, and day out is the whole life.
Your viewpoint absolutely matters. You’re a wife and mother, and your experience is essential. You’re directly affected not only by your husband’s formation, but by the way men like me speak to husbands about who they are becoming. That ripple effect matters and in a sense I’m accountable to you as well.
I don’t deny the value of brotherhood, but the problem is that “fraternity” has become a spiritual outsourcing strategy with no checks and balances. A man’s first fraternity is his household: his wife, his children. If a man is battling pornography, wrath, vanity, or spiritual apathy, the brotherhood isn’t with him in those quiet moments of decision. He’s alone. And if he hasn’t been trained to turn to Christ in the desert, to the sacraments, to Our Lady, then no group chat will save him.
This is what many of these programs miss for husbands and fathers and is largely why I’m here. They point to communal discipline but rarely to sacramental dependency. They emphasize external structure and often neglect the priesthood and governance of the home.
So yes, it is a solitary road, no doubt. But not an empty one. Christ is in the desert. The Blessed Mother is there. The Fathers are there. And if a man is doing this properly, his wife and children aren’t behind him waiting for updates, they’re beside him, under his covering, transformed by the hidden cruciformity of his life.
Thank you for engaging meaningfully. You gave me an idea.
The other temptation I see with Exodus type movements(and have struggled a bit with, myself).... Is Pelagian type tendencies. I believe Pope Francis mentioned it in Evangelii Gaudium, and it caused seizures like a brain surgeon poking the right spot.
Yup. You nailed it.
It leans heavily into the heresy of Pelagianism. Grinding, optimizing, and striving your way into holiness, as if Christ were a coach instead of a Savior.
I have to check myself on that constantly in my own writing. It’s a subtle slope, and ascetic approaches can slip into it without meaning to.
It’s telling that when Pope Francis called this out in Evangelii Gaudium, people lost their minds because it struck a nerve.
A lot of Trad culture runs on that exact logic: borrowed from the secular manosphere, fueled by denominational preachers. Performative masculinity masquerading as formation: hustle your way to heaven.
But Christ said, “Apart from Me, you can do nothing.”
That’s why the desert is my frame. I’m not promoting hustle, i’m calling men to become apostles, to carry their cross, and to disappear into the hidden cruciform work of priesthood in the home. That’s why the Pelagians hate it and that’s why the Church needs it.
I like it, emptying of the self, of the ego, pouring it out for others, like a libation, cf. St Paul
AMEN. You put into words what I have been thinking some time. Nothing to add. Thank you for writing this
Thank you for your support Maria! It wasn’t easy to write. I know a lot of Catholics can see and feel this. Comments like yours let me know I’m not making things up.
That joke, that witty remark held on the tip of your tongue; the cheerful smile for those who annoy you; that silence when you're unjustly accused; your friendly conversation with people whom you find boring and tactless; the daily effort to overlook one irritating detail or another in the persons who live with you… this, with perseverance, is indeed solid interior mortification.
• Text in chapter 'Mortification' in the book 'The Way' of Josemaría Escrivá. Link: https://escriva.org/en/camino/mortification/
I really appreciated what you called out here. I see this toxicity in the TLM movement at times and have witnessed forms of it for a while. I want to say I know really really good people who attend TLM but overall I see issues. The group doesn’t strike me as missionary or outward reaching or friendly in any way. It also confuses culture with liturgy. The liturgy should not be your culture but something that reflects it and transcends it and pulls it higher. The problem is we actually need to work on learning to be human again first. There is a huge void there. God loves all peoples and cultures and they reflect different aspects of the humans he made us to be . To your thirty days advice I would add something. Finding a friend to spend time with and accompany you. In community we learn to bear our suffering. This was thought provoking. Thank you. I hear you brother!
Thank you for engaging with the point. This is the only way through here. There are tons of devout Catholics at TLM and I feel many of them are in an impossible position with how extreme the community has gotten.
You got it right, the liturgy has to pull you higher. That’s my point here. The men are falling miserably. We’re so stuck on aesthetics instead of obedience and apostolic living. So what’s the point?
I love your addition of having a friend accompany. That’s a worthy inclusion. Thank you for sharing your insight, it’s good witness and keeps the dialogue open.
The heart of the problem is the lack of good shepherds for a long time that resulted in lack of trust. People cling to the good they have and after being kicked around so much they cling to it tighter and feel proud for not letting go, mistaking what they hold for what they are without letting it transform them. The solution, therefore, is not to deprive them of the good thing, but to have a true shepherd lead them to make proper use of the good thing. Depriving them of the good thing is further going to erode that trust in shepherds and further exacerbate the problem. Not to mention, I find it inherently unjust to attack any Liturgy that has such a history. If such problems existed in other rites, should we be eager to punish them by limiting their Liturgy? Would it not be profoundly unjust to take away, say any of the Byzantine rites if their members had personal defects in their communities? I could be wrong, but that is my worthless opinion.
Very well said.